I agree entirely. There is much to be learnt from this, and all under the general principle that the fathers of bygone days who gave us the ancient canons and who lived them knew what they were doing and were open to the guidance of the Holy Spirit, demaning rigour where it was necessary, and allowing leniency where it was beneficial.
The language used in the video was slightly inaccurate, though, where it spoke of priests being able to choose whether or not to marry. This is not technically true as only a layman or minor cleric has that choice. A married man may be ordained to the priesthood but a priest may not marry. I think they must have meant that a man who is likely to become a priest is still able to choose to marry. It may be the pedant in me calling out but I think it's an important distinction to make.
The thing that upset me personally about this, though, is where the priest said that he thinks he is a better priest because he is married, because he is better able to relate to the situations of those parishioners who come to him with the struggles of married life. What about those people who will never marry and have their own trials to face in their Christian life because of that? Does he understand their struggles even though they are not part of his own experience? I think it is beneficial to have both married and unmarried priests for this reason but I do not think that it is right to say that a priest is a better pastor simply because he is married. My parish priest is married with three children and he will be the first to admit that he feels at a loss to relate to the trials of single Christian people who will remain so for life.
Very nice video, thank you. I was going to say what Michael did so I'll ad something else. Technically, both the Ukrainian and Melkite Catholics are not supposed to ordain married men here in the USA or Canada but it is done anyway. Rome complains (usually at the instigation of Roman Rite Bishops) and it is ignored and nothing more is said. Recently discovered a beautiful Ukrainian Catholic Church, Saint Elias in Brampton, Ontario, Canada. started by a married UCC priest and a mixed group of Ukrainians and converts. The one thing I really like - NO PEWS! They have swept out nearly all latinization and western intrusions. They have started their own version of reform, going back to the ancient traditions of the Slavic Churches in Ukraine. Gotta luv it!
It is undeniable that there are details that divide the 3 great historic expressions of Christianity; Orthodoxy, Roman Catholicism, & Anglo-Catholics (out of Anglicanism only the Anglo-Catholics truly fit this category). Nevertheless, there seems to be much more that unites the Eastern faith with the Anglo-Catholic faith, case and point the marriage of its clergy. Unlike Rome, neither of us have an objection to a married clergy.
The point that the video drives home is that when additions are made to Holy Tradition, it can be just as dangerous as, and perhaps even more dangerous than when subtractions are made. I fully agree that it is not be fair to say that a priest is a better pastor because he is married, nevertheless, marriage should not disqualify a man. It seems to me that the deciding factor should be whether or not a man is called by God to the priesthood, not his marital status.
Rome’s problem is that for many gay & pedophile males the church became a place to exercise their vice without reproach, and even with a level of protection from the repercussion of their actions. Thus, willingly or not, Rome became a haven for homosexuality and pedophilia in the office of the priesthood. I personally know of one young man who dropped out of a Roman Catholic seminary because he sensed that most of the men in his seminary were there because it was a great place to be gay. This is not to say that all Roman priests are gay, or that all celibate priests are gay, far from it. Nevertheless, the particular requirement for celibacy served as an opportunity for these men who clearly were not called by God into the priesthood to entre into the priesthood. Holy Tradition is clear on the issue of marriage and the priesthood; a married man may become a priest, just as a single celibate man, so long as he is called by God into that office.
The point that the video drives home is that when additions are made to Holy Tradition, it can be just as dangerous as, and perhaps even more dangerous than when subtractions are made.
Hear! Hear! It is generally easy to show that things now absent once existed. It is generally more difficult to show that things we now have are innovation and unhealthy at that. The absence of their mention from historical record does not necessarily denote their absence but could simply be that they were so normal that they didn't warrant mention. Well, this is not the case with married priesthood. There is ample exidence that this was normal practice but the damaging effects can certainly be seen.
Matthew, I Love St Elias', Brampton. Fr Roman is very good to me. I have used much of their music at my own parish as well. If I were to enter into communion with the Latin church, (which I cannot do, in conscience), I would be moving to Canada to make that my parish. Their videos seem to suggest a great faithfulness to the offering of the Byzantine Rite services seldom found in Orthodox churches in the UK. It really is amazing. A former priest of our diocese and his matushka, both of whom are Canadian, visited there once and said that they even rubrics that are now largely obsolete, are brought to life in a way that just seems natural and a worthy offering to God.
This is a very interesting news report that should not go un-noticed!
ReplyDeleteI agree entirely. There is much to be learnt from this, and all under the general principle that the fathers of bygone days who gave us the ancient canons and who lived them knew what they were doing and were open to the guidance of the Holy Spirit, demaning rigour where it was necessary, and allowing leniency where it was beneficial.
ReplyDeleteThe language used in the video was slightly inaccurate, though, where it spoke of priests being able to choose whether or not to marry. This is not technically true as only a layman or minor cleric has that choice. A married man may be ordained to the priesthood but a priest may not marry. I think they must have meant that a man who is likely to become a priest is still able to choose to marry. It may be the pedant in me calling out but I think it's an important distinction to make.
The thing that upset me personally about this, though, is where the priest said that he thinks he is a better priest because he is married, because he is better able to relate to the situations of those parishioners who come to him with the struggles of married life. What about those people who will never marry and have their own trials to face in their Christian life because of that? Does he understand their struggles even though they are not part of his own experience? I think it is beneficial to have both married and unmarried priests for this reason but I do not think that it is right to say that a priest is a better pastor simply because he is married. My parish priest is married with three children and he will be the first to admit that he feels at a loss to relate to the trials of single Christian people who will remain so for life.
Just some additional thoughts.
(I loved the paschal chant during communion).
Very nice video, thank you.
ReplyDeleteI was going to say what Michael did so I'll ad something else.
Technically, both the Ukrainian and Melkite Catholics are not supposed to ordain married men here in the USA or Canada but it is done anyway. Rome complains (usually at the instigation of Roman Rite Bishops) and it is ignored and nothing more is said.
Recently discovered a beautiful Ukrainian Catholic Church, Saint Elias in Brampton, Ontario, Canada. started by a married UCC priest and a mixed group of Ukrainians and converts. The one thing I really like - NO PEWS! They have swept out nearly all latinization and western intrusions. They have started their own version of reform, going back to the ancient traditions of the Slavic Churches in Ukraine. Gotta luv it!
It is undeniable that there are details that divide the 3 great historic expressions of Christianity; Orthodoxy, Roman Catholicism, & Anglo-Catholics (out of Anglicanism only the Anglo-Catholics truly fit this category). Nevertheless, there seems to be much more that unites the Eastern faith with the Anglo-Catholic faith, case and point the marriage of its clergy. Unlike Rome, neither of us have an objection to a married clergy.
ReplyDeleteThe point that the video drives home is that when additions are made to Holy Tradition, it can be just as dangerous as, and perhaps even more dangerous than when subtractions are made. I fully agree that it is not be fair to say that a priest is a better pastor because he is married, nevertheless, marriage should not disqualify a man. It seems to me that the deciding factor should be whether or not a man is called by God to the priesthood, not his marital status.
Rome’s problem is that for many gay & pedophile males the church became a place to exercise their vice without reproach, and even with a level of protection from the repercussion of their actions. Thus, willingly or not, Rome became a haven for homosexuality and pedophilia in the office of the priesthood. I personally know of one young man who dropped out of a Roman Catholic seminary because he sensed that most of the men in his seminary were there because it was a great place to be gay. This is not to say that all Roman priests are gay, or that all celibate priests are gay, far from it. Nevertheless, the particular requirement for celibacy served as an opportunity for these men who clearly were not called by God into the priesthood to entre into the priesthood. Holy Tradition is clear on the issue of marriage and the priesthood; a married man may become a priest, just as a single celibate man, so long as he is called by God into that office.
The point that the video drives home is that when additions are made to Holy Tradition, it can be just as dangerous as, and perhaps even more dangerous than when subtractions are made.
ReplyDeleteHear! Hear! It is generally easy to show that things now absent once existed. It is generally more difficult to show that things we now have are innovation and unhealthy at that. The absence of their mention from historical record does not necessarily denote their absence but could simply be that they were so normal that they didn't warrant mention. Well, this is not the case with married priesthood. There is ample exidence that this was normal practice but the damaging effects can certainly be seen.
Matthew, I Love St Elias', Brampton. Fr Roman is very good to me. I have used much of their music at my own parish as well. If I were to enter into communion with the Latin church, (which I cannot do, in conscience), I would be moving to Canada to make that my parish. Their videos seem to suggest a great faithfulness to the offering of the Byzantine Rite services seldom found in Orthodox churches in the UK. It really is amazing. A former priest of our diocese and his matushka, both of whom are Canadian, visited there once and said that they even rubrics that are now largely obsolete, are brought to life in a way that just seems natural and a worthy offering to God.